Oracle to stop supporting Gnome accessibility.

This is without doubt the most dammaging news to hit assistive technology users ever. Believe me when I say that the effect of this cannot be over stressed. If people like Willy Walker from Sun are not employed to continue to push the Gnome accessibility project forward, the advances we've seen in the past ten years will never be seen again. That's a fact based on their track record. Without the Gnome accessibility project, I would not have been able to hold employment when working for Novell. There are hundreds of people in similar situations around the world. Sure, the Gnome accessibility project will possibly continue however without the backing of Sun, it's going to make very few strides forward. Everyone who has an interest in assistive technology needs to jump on this one. It doesn't matter what platform you use. It doesn't matter if you've even heard of Linux. I hear you ask Why! Look at Firefox 3. I saw press releases from both Freedom Scientific and GW Micro claming that they worked with the Mozilla foundation to ensure that version 3 of Firefox was accessible to visually impaired. But, in actual fact, I know that it was nothing to do with them. And, if you want proof, just look through the logs of the nightly builds. Every day, someone from the sun led Linux accessibility project was helping Firefox contributors to fix bugs that caused problems with accessibility. It was Sun that made the need for Accessibility known! Here is an open letter written by one of the most hard working community developers of Orca, the screen reader for the Gnome desktop manager. Joanie is without doubt one of the most hard working and intellegent people I have the fortune of following on Twitter. I really hope that he continues his work on Orca however I doubt that even she will be able to do as much on a part time basis as Willy Walker was able to do in his full time role. The open lettter can be found at http://blog.grain-of-salt.com/index.php?itemid=394 An Open Letter to Oracle on the Topic Of Accessibility Dear Oracle: You don't know me, so please permit me a brief introduction: I'm Joanie. By day, I'm an assistive technology specialist working with individuals who are blind or visually impaired. By night, weekend, and holiday for almost four years now, I've been a GNOME community contributor working primarily on the Orca screen reader, a project led by Sun's Accessibility Program Office. Working with the engineers at Sun, both inside and outside of the APO, has been an honor for a variety of reasons, not least of which is our shared common belief: Access isn't a privilege; it's a right. Towards that end, Sun Microsystems strived to ensure that ALL users have access to software and information. Does Oracle plan to do the same? Sun Microsystems believed that these things shouldn't be denied to those who aren't employed, or who don't live in the "right" country, or who don't speak the "right" language, or who cannot afford to purchase thousands of dollars' worth of access technology. What does Oracle believe? Through its significant, ongoing contributions to the GNOME desktop, Sun Microsystems has made computer access possible for many individuals with disabilities, from all walks of life, all over the world. Will Oracle embrace the opportunity to continue this important work? My assumption was yes. In fact, I was feeling quite hopeful. After all, the past few years have been hard on Sun. But with Larry Ellison's promise of increased investment in the Sun brand, and Oracle's strong commitment to accessibility, things would finally be turning around: If one under-funded APO could accomplish everything that it has, what could the two combined and properly-funded APOs achieve? At the very least we'd be able to finally get a handle on all of the accessibility challenges facing GNOME 3. I was wrong. Last week, Oracle laid off two more members of Sun's already-decimated APO. One of those let go happened to be both the Orca project lead and the GNOME Accessibility project lead, Willie Walker. I truly hope this was an oversight on Oracle's part, and one that will be rectified very soon. Because if it is not, and if no other company steps forward to continue this work, the accessibility of the GNOME desktop will become the open source equivalent of an unfunded mandate, doomed ultimately to fail. Oracle's decision threatens to leave many individuals with disabilities around the world without access to a modern desktop environment. I find that tragic. Please, make sure you tell others about this. Tweet it. Call your friends, shout from the roof tops, just do something! This really cannot go unnoticed by us as uses of assistive technology. If it does, I am sorry to say that we'll all regret it.

Oracle and Orca

I hope tht Oracle realies thatif faces legal problems if itdoen't reverse directions concerning Orca. Whether it doe or not, now may be the right time to appel to the Spial Needsteam at IBM to renew its dvelopment of LSR, Linux Scren Reade.

Oracle and Accessibility

Hi there - A lot of discussion of how recent changes show a change in our approach to accessibility. Oracle has a substantial, well-recognized track record on accessibility, and with Sun, our team becomes even stronger.  We have retained most of Sun's accessibility engineers, and will continue our significant investment in accessibility across all of our products.  It's important to keep in mind that changes in staffing do not indicate product strategy and direction. Thanks.

Oracle and Accessibility

HI there - With all this discussion, I think it's important to recognize that Oracle has a substantial, well-recognized track record on accessibility, and with Sun, our team becomes even stronger.  We have retained most of Sun's accessibility engineers, and will continue our significant investment in accessibility across all of our products.  Changes in staffing do not indicate product strategy and direction. Thanks, Karen Tillman

Maybe Karen's right?

Hi all, As a new linux user, I have read this topic with curiosity. While I first wondered about oracle's decision to fire the current orca lead, I then asked myself a very important question. Compared to windows and mac, how much can the now blind user do with linux and orca? The answer is, sadly, not much. Despite having been developed for seven plus years now, there's no working PDF support, no flash support, and no skype support. And as if that weren't bad enough, there is no access to applications that utilize root such as the update manager in the latest ubuntu. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to try typing in your password to an application like computer janitor, only to have orca stop talking and bring your whole system to a screeching halt. And it's equally frustrating to hear that there are no workarounds. Instead, one must use the terminal and memorize long strings of typed commands if they want to do something as simple as download the latest software updates. Unacceptable to say the least. I know that this is not necessarily all orca's fault, as different linux distributions implement things in different ways. But all these problems seem like gaping holes in the accessibility framework overall. Maybe a different funder with a slightly different accessibility philosophy will change things, and ultimately make them better for blind users wishing to take advantage of linux.

Wrong.

The reason why there's no PDF or flash support is not due to a problem in the accessibility framework. The issue is that Adobe and Flash have yet to port their software to GTK2. If they had, then Orca would most likely work right away out of the box. OF course, if they followed the interface design policies for Gnome then it would work even better again, but this is not Orca's doing. The ideal that Orca is based on is largely the most sustainable and inovative approach used by a screen reader. it puts the resposibility for making an application accessible on the application developer but it furnishes them with standards to follow to make that a norm instead of something extra. Apple's OS follows this policy also. I don't agree then that the methods used by Sun were flawed. Remember, Orca is the second incarnation of a screen reader produced by Sun. Gnopernicus was not script or python based and when they saw that it wasn't fulfilling it's role they scrapped it in favour of focusing their efferts on Orca. Sun knew what they were doing. They built a great screen reader and their policy of tireless communication with application developers is unsurpassed by any other assistive technology provider.

follow up to my last comment

Darragh, As I stated in my last comment, not everything is orca's fault. There are some companies like adobe who do not follow the standards, and it makes sense that orca should do nothing extra to support them. Apple doesn't on the mac either. But why aren't the free alternatives accessible then? Is GTK not as unified a standard on linux as apple's Aqua is on the mac? And if so, why wouldn't orca implement accessibility into KDE as well, so as to make accessibility truly native to the linux world? I've seen posts about this since 2006, but still nothing useable. Surely, effective communication with developers over seven years would at least have rendered us a working prototype for now, especially given the concerns about KDE desktops obtaining government contracts, etc. But the problems go beyond using a nonstandard API. Try going into ubuntu 9.10 and using any application that requires root. You will get as far as a box asking you to type in your password, and when you do Orca will lock up and bring the system down. Similarly, look at the performance with open office. I said this is another blog, but at some points, orca will stop reading consecutive text in a document, and jump many pages further in the document. Try it with a book some time if you doubt me. So, what explains these problems, if the applications are written in GTK as part of gnome? How can this happen if not an insufficient accessibility API or lackluster programming? I no nothing is perfect, but I certainly expect more out of a screen reader and APIs that were developed for seven years. And, given the forward progress of both voiceover and NVDA in the past two years, I can't help but think that Oracle may bring a new and helpful perspective to the table. I know NVDA is not a fair comparison, as the API for MSAA existed before the screen reader did, but they support more than that now anyway.

GTK V QT.

KDE is based on QT and Gnome is based on GTK. It's important to recognise the differences in these environments from the start. QT doesn't support AT-SPI. It was planned to support this but it never happened. This is down to a decision by the QT developers. Here's an article that discusses how Gnome communicates with Orca. http://accessibility.kde.org/developer/atk.php There's information about the accessibility of QT packages at http://doc.trolltech.com/4.5/qt4-accessibility.html GTK is not the only standard for the graphical desktop manager in Linux. QT is just as much of a player. That's where the problem comes in. Any application that is written for Gnome and follows the Gnome development guidelines will communicate the necessary information to Orca. The problem arises when you launch a QT based application such as Acrobat reader as Orca doesn't get the required information from it. I understand your point about the limited progress in some areas due to developers not making enough progress with their compliants with the accessibility guidelines but tell me one platform where that isn't an issue. It's nothing to do with communication. It's a problem with bad coding. Simple. In relation to the problems you have encountered accessing applications that run as root in Ubuntu, there are a number of well documented fixes to this. Basically, Orca, like every other Linux application can not obtain information from a process running as a more privlidged user. This is the reason why Linux is such a secure platform. However, there are work arounds to this as I said earlier. In fact, Listen to one of the recordings in the Linux section of www.lalrecordings.com and you will hear one of the ways of getting around this. In Vinux, the environment is preconfigured for optomal accessibility. Perhaps you should try this out? You might find that with the environment configured to provide the most accessibility, most of your issues are resolved. If nothing else, it will illustrate to you that on most distributions of Linux running Gnome, problems can be ironed out if your willing to spend some time on configuration. I'd also suggest you read http://live.gnome.org/Orca as I'm almost certain that you'll find an alternative and accessible PDF reader. As for skype, use the plug in for Pidgin. I would bet that you will not find an application that doesn't have a gTK counterpart in LInux. There are very few things in Linux that you will not be able to access if you keep at it. Just like the same can be said in windows or even OSX if your that way inclined.

root applications and PDF clarification

I hate to be bothersome, so this is the last comment I will leave. However, the workaround discussed for root applications only works for some of them. The applications that present a dialogue saying sudo password for user, are accessible by making the .orbitrc file as described on the gnome wiki. However, when you try to activate other applications, you get the following dialogue. Enter your password to perform administrative tasks. The application X lets you modify essential parts of your system. Even if the .orbitrc file is made correctly, this dialogue box always, without fail, hangs the system. Trying to hit alt F2 and running orca again gets the message welcome to Orca, with no subsequent speech. These applications include computer janitor, update manager, and a few others I cannot think of. Second, I wanted to comment on acroread, the PDF solution the gnome wiki points to. I downloaded version 9.2, the latest one, on my ubuntu machine. While the file menus are accessible, the display area that shows the contents of the PDF is not. Orca just announces this as a panel, and is silent with regard to any further information. I understand there is an option to convert a PDF to txt, but this is not really a satisfactory alternative. I am also aware that the gnome wiki is kept up by volunteers. And while I most certainly appreciate their efforts, I do think it must be more clear in some areas to further help users. Thanks for reading. As I said, I won't bug you with further comments to this entry. But I do like the blog, so keep up the good work. John

Accessibility Varies.

Like Darragh and others state, this issue isn't just in Linux. Not every app you se see Windows or the Mac is perfectly usable all the time either. Take a look at VirtualBox support on JAWS and NVDA. This is because VBox is written in QT, and not all APIs are supported in accessibility. This is not just a Linux issue, it's on all all platforms. Most things in Linux can be dealt with either by console apps or GTK based programs.

Oracle and Accessibility

I am just wondering, Karen said that changes in staff does not indicate anything about commitment to accessibility. This is true and a good point, but she doesn't say in regard to Orca anything about continued support. Removing the lead developer with no explanation is going to generate a lot of questions and speculation. This is especially true when the lead developer is as devoted and hard working as Mr. Walker. He has brought Orca forward by leaps and bounds though this may not be readily apparent to people who do not understand the issues faced by the Orca developers. The question is; What is Oracle's stand on Orca? I hope that Oracle will continue Sun's work with Orca development. After all, it does absolutely no good to create accessible products if there are no tools with which to access them. So, Karen, do you have any information regarding Oracle's next move toward Orca?

Well well well, no answer in

Well well well, no answer in weeks. Or, perhaps this is the answer... Nothing.

Computer Support

Computer Support

I think Oracle's decision is

I think Oracle's decision is justified. Oracle has grown so much in the past years and they do have the power to stop supporting Gnome accessibility. Lilia Gephardt @ Domain name

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